Sauropods, Elephants, Weightlifters

by Wayne Throop

Copyright © 1995-2003

[Text Last Updated: June 27, 1995]

[Links Updated: March 27, 2003]

ince the time of the Great Renaming, which changed net.origins to talk.origins, Ted Holden has been repeatedly posting the claim that sauropod dinosaurs were too large to have existed in 1g acceleration. His argument is based on simple square-cube scaling of human weightlifter performance (in particular, the performance of Bill Kazmaier). His conclusion is that nothing larger than an elephant is possible in 1g. His proposed solution is a "reduction in the felt effect of gravity" (by which he seems to mean the effective acceleration), due to a variant of Velikovskian Catastrophism, often called Saturnism. Ted's materials in their current form can be found on his web pages dealing with catastrophism.

Ted's arguments are largely faulty. There are many different ways that the validity of Ted's argument can be checked. Here are just a few.

• Elephants larger than Ted's limit
• Structural issues
• Bone and muscle allometry
• Problems with Ted's proposed mechanism
• Miscellaneous issues

[Next]

References

Papers

• Hokkanen, J.E.I., 1986. "The Size of the Largest Land Animal"
  Journal of Theoretical Biology, v.118, p.491-499.

  Abstract: The upper mass limit to terrestrial animals is studied using physical arguments and allometric laws for bone and muscle strength and animal locomotion. The limit is suggested to lie between 10^5 and 10^6 kg. A possibility for a still larger mass, in case of new adaptations, is not excluded.

Megafauna books

• [DD&EG] R.McNeill Alexander, "Dynamics of Dinosaurs and other Extinct Giants"
  Columbia University Press, 1989

  (Very good general overview of many of the issues, with references to more detailed studies in published papers. Addresses issues of flying giants such as pterosaur and teratorn also.)

• [DS&S] McGowan "Dinosaurs, Spitfires and Sea Dragons"
  Harvard University Press London 1991

  (The source of much of Ted's material, including his overestimate of ultrasaurus mass, but interestingly, McGowan also provides answers to some of Ted's supposed stumpers, such as how could the sauropods possibly support their necks (nuchal ligaments), or why haven't many animals gotten as large as sauropods (environmental factors, gizzards, fermenting stomachs, and so on).)

• [tCTR] John R Horner and Don Lessem, "The Complete T. Rex" 1993

  (addresses issues of gait, predation, and strength in T.Rex)

• [KoC] Don Lessem, "The Kings of Creation",
  Simon and Schuster, 1992

  (updated and reissued as "Dinosaurs Rediscovered" in 1993) (Contains interviews with Jensen, MacIntosh, and Gillette about the finds of the very largest sauropods)

• [tD] Weischampel, Dodson, Osmolska, "The Dinosauria"
  University of California Press, 1990

  (a plodding textbook, but contains the best information as of the time of its publication) (in particular, the overview of the sauropods is written by John MacIntosh, for whom ultrasaurus macintoshi was named by Jensen)

• [tDH] Robert T. Bakker, "The Dinosaur Heresies"
  William Morrow and Company, Inc

  (Bakker's work is controversial, but he presents sketchy evidence that muscle and bone cross sectional strengths of dinosaurs make them not only plausible in 1g, but agile.)

• [DS] Carpenter and Curie, "Dinosaur Systematics"
  Cambridge University Press, 1990

  (especially note the paper on morphology of plateosaurus by Weischapel: has an interesting diagram of the tendon attachment point, an example of improved leverage over more normal structures) (also the paper on species determination in sauropods was written by John MacIntosh, and illustrates the folly of scaling sauropod masses by note-to-tailtip lengths, as these vary greatly even among fairly closely related species)

• [DT&T] Gillette, "Dinosaur Tracks and Traces"

  (collection of papers)

• [StES] Gillette, "Seismosaur: The Earth Shaker"

  (A "coffee table book" I browsed through. Contains some photos of the site, images of recovered bones, and some qualitative information, eg, on the exaggerated features for weightbearing relative to diplodocus.)

Elephant books

• [GALE] "Grzimek's Animal Life Encyclopedia"
  Van Norstram Reinhold Co. New York 1975

• [AF&F] Gerald L. Wood "Animal Facts and Feats"
  Sterling Publishing Co. New York 1978

• [E&TH] Laws, Parker and Johnstone "Elephants and their Habitats"
  Laws, Parker and Johnstone Clarendon Press Oxford 1975  

• [NHotAE] Sikes "Natural History of the African Elephant"
  American Elsevier Publishing Co. New York 1971  

• [tAE] DiSilvestro "The African Elephant: Twilight in Eden"
  John Wiley & Sons, inc (for the National Audubon Society) New York 1991

• [GBR] "The Guiness Book of Records"
  1994 edition

General biomechanics books

• [tHM] Alexander "The Human Machine"
  Columbio University Press

• [AM] Alexander "Animal Mechanics"
  University of Washington Press

• [WASI] Knut Nielson's, "Scaling, Why is Animal size So Important",
  Cambridge Univ Press, 1984